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Post by infamousdane on Sept 5, 2005 13:20:01 GMT -5
Alright this is an article/discussion.  This young star was picked 1st overall. He was picked before a dominant PF who goes by the name of LeMarcus Aldridge.For many years I have always wondered why do wing players get drafted over big men. For instance, Rudy Gay getting picked over a lot better big men. Lets compare the following players that went top 5. LeMarcus Aldridge PF 6'11'' 230 20 B C C B B B Rudy Gay SF 6'8'' 22 22 B C+ C A- C A Darius Washington PG 6'1'' 170 21 B B C C D A Raymond Felton PG 6'1'' 199 21 C+ C B B- D+ A Adam Morrison SG 6'9'' 225 21 B- B+ C C C+ A Lets be real here, if Hammi never had that 4th pick Felton would have dropped a lot further then that. However, is that such a bad pick? Nope I dont think so at all. There is nobody in the league like Felton and he might actually turn out to be a good point guard of the future. Picks like Rudy Gay give me a headache as there are players like him who are younger and are very skillful. This only leaves the potential to compare, which we don't know of. I mean its pretty obvious that Gay will be solid, but he won't be worth that 1st overall selection like Darius Washington or LeMarcus Aldridge would have been. Really what I am trying to say is why do wing players always get picked over better big men or more interesting prospects.  If Outlaw was in the 2006 entry draft were would he be picked?For Instance (Following wing players like Rudy Gay): Josh Howard Josh Smith Andre Iguodala Travis Outlaw Danny Granger J.R. Smith Joey Graham Here are a handful of players who have similar ratings to Rudy Gay. This is were you know being the number 1 pick overrates the value of a player. As if any of these players were in the draft Rudy would have fell like a ton of bricks. What am I trying to get at? Is that he shouldn't have been picked 1st overall period. There are still some prospects that were picked later that look better then Rudy. In addition, this is why the names of the player play a big role in if they are picked or not. Look at the following prospects: Josh Boone PF 6'10" 237 20 B- D+ C- B+ B+ B Torin Francis PF 6'11'' 252 21 B- D+ C B B A Hassan Adams SG 6'4" 200 21 B- B- B- B- C- B Nemanja Aleksandrov SF 6'10'' 220 18 C+ C+ C+ B- C A Sylvester Mayes PG 6'2'' 190 22 B- C B- B C- B Clearly you could see that some of these guys are even better then Rudy Gay. In addition, I wonder if Rudy's name was changed to Russell Gordon would he even be picked 1st overall? Basically, what I am trying to say is that LeMarcus Aldridge is going to be one of the best PF's to come out of a draft for a long time. Looking at the Bulls roster getting a big man would have been the best thing to pair up with Amare. As we all know Amare is a PF/C and having a front court of Amare, LeMarcus Aldridge, and Luol Deng would have been great. Hassan Adams Im not sure if he is a bust or not. He might be too good to come out of the draft. However, doesnt he have overall better ratings then Rudy. LeMarcus Aldridge dominated the rookie games and Rudy played solid every game. Futhermore, I am trying to say are Wing players always going to dominate a draft? As SG/SF's are mostly picked, but should it really be C/PF's being picked before? Only time will tell as the only center I remember being taken 1st was and always will be Greg Oden.  Might be the only big man drafted 1st overall in the UBL.I hope all the wing players drafted develop, but this must have been the best year to get a big man. In addition, many teams will be disappointed to let Torin Francis, Josh Boone, LeMarcus Aldridge go. Basically, the winner of this years draft has to be the Hawks. They got 2 big men who look to develop into solid building pieces. In a league hard to find solid big men the Hawks scored big. Teams like the Hawks, Hornets, Cavs, Clippers and the Bulls must hope there wing players turn out or the Celtics, Raptors and Hawks are going to look like thiefs after this draft. |
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Post by infamousdane on Sept 5, 2005 13:21:40 GMT -5
Lets start the discussion. As I would say would you trade any of those wing players for Andre Iggy as he would probably be a top pick in this draft too.. All the wing players in this draft are great and all but I wish I could have had a big man as they are looking great.. I could be wrong though. A lot of the Wing players could develop.
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Post by nybombers3 on Sept 5, 2005 13:42:18 GMT -5
It depends on potential and it depends on how the ratings are made up. Gay's B inside could be a tiny bit away from B+. Outside scoring is usually a pretty easy thing for a guard or foward to increase so that should go up. I'll put it this way, Gay could be this in 4 or 5 seasons:
B+ B+ C+ A C B
Boone is better now but will he be better in 3 years? Prob not.
There was alot of hype on LeMarcus Aldridge, which is fine, but the question was raised, has he reached his prime already? If he has, he's with Boone. The better player NOW but prob not in 3 years. Francis is someone you can make a case for but if the Bulls sign Amare and Meka, they are fine as is IMO.
As for the rookie games, of course LeMarcus Aldridge had better games. Aldridge is a player that is ready to play. Gay is more of a project.
As for the players you brought up, here is why they wouldent be top picks:
Travis Outlaw - His D is B, plus his outside is medicore.
Josh Howard - You can make a case for him, though he is 25.
Josh Smith - Gay is coming in with better D and a better outside shot.
Andre Iguodala - You can make the best case for him
Danny Granger - B potential mostly.
J.R. Smith - Gay came in with better D
Joey Graham - Gay is a much better player right now. Even if they both had 100 potential, Gay would be alot better.
Just look at the real NBA. Aldridge could be looked at as Andrew Bogut and Marvin would be Rudy Gay.
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Post by joer625 on Sept 5, 2005 13:42:53 GMT -5
the other thigns i always wondered is why do people rely on potential so much over proven guys? often times these potential guys turn out worse thean most of the proven good guys, even i they are similar
potential is vastly overrated
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Post by infamousdane on Sept 5, 2005 13:52:06 GMT -5
Agreed. I understand both of you. Which is why I wanted to make an article were we can all discuss and talk about this. Boone probably ownt develop that much but how do we know? He could have close to A- A- in defense and rebounding couldnt he? Agreed with most of your points but who knows Gay has 100%.. which is what im trying to get at. I said again and again in the article that Gay will be solid no doubt.. and agreed it is easy for a wing player to develop an outside shot... but I know Gay is a big project but who knows if they sign Amare+ Meka.. Amare is probably gonna re-sign but who knows if anyone else does sign with the mighty Bulls.. Its all probably, might and maybe, but I just never got why Wing players got picked over PF's/C's.. I guess we are going to have to make projects PF's though it is hard for them to develop the offensive game, defensive game and rebounding game.
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Post by nybombers3 on Sept 5, 2005 13:55:34 GMT -5
the other thigns i always wondered is why do people rely on potential so much over proven guys? often times these potential guys turn out worse thean most of the proven good guys, even i they are similar potential is vastly overrated Sometimes it is, sometimes it isnt. Who would you rather build around, Shaq or Oden? or Shaq or Bron? I do agree, a good amount of the times, A potentials are overrated big time but your making it seem like every player with potential won't be as good as the current proven players. Also, the "potential players" are usually MUCH younger then the proven players. Again, a 21 year old Oden (or whatever age he will be) or a 33 year old Shaq? I do agree, it is overrated a good amount of the time, but not always. |
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Post by joer625 on Sept 5, 2005 13:57:19 GMT -5
Agreed. I understand both of you. Which is why I wanted to make an article were we can all discuss and talk about this. Boone probably ownt develop that much but how do we know? He could have close to A- A- in defense and rebounding couldnt he? Agreed with most of your points but who knows Gay has 100%.. which is what im trying to get at. I said again and again in the article that Gay will be solid no doubt.. and agreed it is easy for a wing player to develop an outside shot... but I know Gay is a big project but who knows if they sign Amare+ Meka.. Amare is probably gonna re-sign but who knows if anyone else does sign with the mighty Bulls.. Its all probably, might and maybe, but I just never got why Wing players got picked over PF's/C's.. I guess we are going to have to make projects PF's though it is hard for them to develop the offensive game, defensive game and rebounding game. yeah gay cant be that much better than the others, namely aldridge, cuz james knew all and probably figured the trade down to 5 wouldnt be much of a difference...who knows, i highly doubt it but james cudda palyed everyoen the hwole tiem and made the best guy go at like 5...but thatd be cheap as hell and i highly doubt hed do it |
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Post by infamousdane on Sept 5, 2005 14:02:22 GMT -5
Agreed. I understand both of you. Which is why I wanted to make an article were we can all discuss and talk about this. Boone probably ownt develop that much but how do we know? He could have close to A- A- in defense and rebounding couldnt he? Agreed with most of your points but who knows Gay has 100%.. which is what im trying to get at. I said again and again in the article that Gay will be solid no doubt.. and agreed it is easy for a wing player to develop an outside shot... but I know Gay is a big project but who knows if they sign Amare+ Meka.. Amare is probably gonna re-sign but who knows if anyone else does sign with the mighty Bulls.. Its all probably, might and maybe, but I just never got why Wing players got picked over PF's/C's.. I guess we are going to have to make projects PF's though it is hard for them to develop the offensive game, defensive game and rebounding game. yeah gay cant be that much better than the others, namely aldridge, cuz james knew all and probably figured the trade down to 5 wouldnt be much of a difference...who knows, i highly doubt it but james cudda palyed everyoen the hwole tiem and made the best guy go at like 5...but thatd be cheap as hell and i highly doubt hed do it Agreed but i knew Gay was great, but for some reason Aldridge being compared to Bosh and dominanted I knew he was gonna turn out good. I love Danilo, he is an Italian Stallion.  Anyway, I came out nicely. My smoke screen with Gay worked, so now I fucking love that trade for me. I just dumped Raefs contract. Aldrige was awesome at the pre draft camp which confirmed my selection of him. Gay is gonna be great James everyone knows it but it shows Aldrige is gonna be too.. Maybe one of the best turnouts in the draft I believe. When you see a guy score 28 points and have 15 rebounds he is gonna be good.. and with his potential he is going to be solid.. His potential isnt as high as gay but will probably make him dominant some nights in the UBL. |
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Post by nybombers3 on Sept 5, 2005 14:05:36 GMT -5
Agreed. I understand both of you. Which is why I wanted to make an article were we can all discuss and talk about this. Boone probably ownt develop that much but how do we know? He could have close to A- A- in defense and rebounding couldnt he? Agreed with most of your points but who knows Gay has 100%.. which is what im trying to get at. I said again and again in the article that Gay will be solid no doubt.. and agreed it is easy for a wing player to develop an outside shot... but I know Gay is a big project but who knows if they sign Amare+ Meka.. Amare is probably gonna re-sign but who knows if anyone else does sign with the mighty Bulls.. Its all probably, might and maybe, but I just never got why Wing players got picked over PF's/C's.. I guess we are going to have to make projects PF's though it is hard for them to develop the offensive game, defensive game and rebounding game. It's all assuming. For all anyone knows, Boone could have 0 potential. It's all a guessing game really. I'll use 2 examples from the GXL and before I start, sorry Da1 and Dash. Remember Wright and and Williams? Both had sexy ratings and both had A potential if I remember right. Both busted BIG time. Point is, nobody drafts a player if they 100% feel he is a bust. It's the same with FA. Who knows if anyone period signs with the Bulls. |
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Post by infamousdane on Sept 5, 2005 14:10:39 GMT -5
Agreed. I understand both of you. Which is why I wanted to make an article were we can all discuss and talk about this. Boone probably ownt develop that much but how do we know? He could have close to A- A- in defense and rebounding couldnt he? Agreed with most of your points but who knows Gay has 100%.. which is what im trying to get at. I said again and again in the article that Gay will be solid no doubt.. and agreed it is easy for a wing player to develop an outside shot... but I know Gay is a big project but who knows if they sign Amare+ Meka.. Amare is probably gonna re-sign but who knows if anyone else does sign with the mighty Bulls.. Its all probably, might and maybe, but I just never got why Wing players got picked over PF's/C's.. I guess we are going to have to make projects PF's though it is hard for them to develop the offensive game, defensive game and rebounding game. It's all assuming. For all anyone knows, Boone could have 0 potential. It's all a guessing game really. I'll use 2 examples from the GXL and before I start, sorry Da1 and Dash. Remember Wright and and Williams? Both had sexy ratings and both had A potential if I remember right. Both busted BIG time. Point is, nobody drafts a player if they 100% feel he is a bust. It's the same with FA. Who knows if anyone period signs with the Bulls. Agreed just like if nobody signs in Portland for 2 years and LeBron leaves.. and I get a chance aat a top pick.. it could however end up you signing Emeka, Yao, Amare or Shaq one of them and LeBron re-signs correct? |
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Post by nybombers3 on Sept 5, 2005 14:13:05 GMT -5
yeah gay cant be that much better than the others, namely aldridge, cuz james knew all and probably figured the trade down to 5 wouldnt be much of a difference...who knows, i highly doubt it but james cudda palyed everyoen the hwole tiem and made the best guy go at like 5...but thatd be cheap as hell and i highly doubt hed do it Agreed but i knew Gay was great, but for some reason Aldridge being compared to Bosh and dominanted I knew he was gonna turn out good. I love Danilo, he is an Italian Stallion. Anyway, I came out nicely. My smoke screen with Gay worked, so now I fucking love that trade for me. I just dumped Raefs contract. Aldrige was awesome at the pre draft camp which confirmed my selection of him. Gay is gonna be great James everyone knows it but it shows Aldrige is gonna be too.. Maybe one of the best turnouts in the draft I believe. When you see a guy score 28 points and have 15 rebounds he is gonna be good.. and with his potential he is going to be solid.. His potential isnt as high as gay but will probably make him dominant some nights in the UBL. He's the thing about it though. He went up against a bunch of other rookies. Do you think he'll do anything like that aganist a player like Duncan or Brand? This also reminded me of something. A young PF put up 27/9 in the UBDL. He's young and has A potential. Do you feel he should go above Gay if he was in the draft? You should know who i'm talking about Dane. |
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Post by nybombers3 on Sept 5, 2005 14:13:53 GMT -5
It's all assuming. For all anyone knows, Boone could have 0 potential. It's all a guessing game really. I'll use 2 examples from the GXL and before I start, sorry Da1 and Dash. Remember Wright and and Williams? Both had sexy ratings and both had A potential if I remember right. Both busted BIG time. Point is, nobody drafts a player if they 100% feel he is a bust. It's the same with FA. Who knows if anyone period signs with the Bulls. Agreed just like if nobody signs in Portland for 2 years and LeBron leaves.. and I get a chance aat a top pick.. it could however end up you signing Emeka, Yao, Amare or Shaq one of them and LeBron re-signs correct? The first part won't happen though |
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Post by joer625 on Sept 5, 2005 14:26:53 GMT -5
the other thigns i always wondered is why do people rely on potential so much over proven guys? often times these potential guys turn out worse thean most of the proven good guys, even i they are similar potential is vastly overrated Sometimes it is, sometimes it isnt. Who would you rather build around, Shaq or Oden? or Shaq or Bron? I do agree, a good amount of the times, A potentials are overrated big time but your making it seem like every player with potential won't be as good as the current proven players. Also, the "potential players" are usually MUCH younger then the proven players. Again, a 21 year old Oden (or whatever age he will be) or a 33 year old Shaq? I do agree, it is overrated a good amount of the time, but not always. yeahi guess im just frustrated o teams being set at position when they have sebastian telfair or oriene greene there |
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Darko Milicic
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Post by anks on Sept 5, 2005 14:37:03 GMT -5
when i started this draft, i had a top 10 list and my top 10 went top 10 in the actual draft but in different order ofcourse..i was hoping someone would take manja before me though since i have my doubts that he would bust....its funny that i ended up with manja on the board when 10th roll around....i did not want to take him because of the bust thing...i was looking at sergio really hard because i needed a pg but someone like manja is just too good to pass up on..those ratings, age, the potential...the bottom line is that i would rather take a risk at someone like manja than go with a safe pick who might not even turn out to be that good...manja has better ratings than sergio already and he has that great size to go along with it
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Post by infamousdane on Sept 5, 2005 14:39:36 GMT -5
Agreed but i knew Gay was great, but for some reason Aldridge being compared to Bosh and dominanted I knew he was gonna turn out good. Gay is gonna be great James everyone knows it but it shows Aldrige is gonna be too.. Maybe one of the best turnouts in the draft I believe. When you see a guy score 28 points and have 15 rebounds he is gonna be good.. and with his potential he is going to be solid.. His potential isnt as high as gay but will probably make him dominant some nights in the UBL. He's the thing about it though. He went up against a bunch of other rookies. Do you think he'll do anything like that aganist a player like Duncan or Brand? This also reminded me of something. A young PF put up 27/9 in the UBDL. He's young and has A potential. Do you feel he should go above Gay if he was in the draft? You should know who i'm talking about Dane. Agreed and no of course not.. I wanted him though because its hard finding a young PF who has a good inside game already most of them have C+ inside |
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